The kids came and talked freely with him, though he did not see fit to interview them. He informed us that guns are not illegal. They just ask that they stay locked away from the kids. We explained that we actually only have 2 guns, and they are in a locked closet. We asked if that was considered good enough and it was.
He asked about the kids' health. I told him to look at the kids and see if they had any runny noses or any signs of sickness at all. They do not. We explained that we have not even had a child with a cough since January 2016. He expressed the great blessing we have to have so many kids in good health. He asked about Rachel since she was the reason for the call last year. Rachel has grown a lot and has gained 10 pounds since last year.
He told us he was not going to keep the case open, but he would call the people we gave him to call and bring us the closeout paperwork next week.
We know that the claims came through John's mother and father, even if they were not the ones to make the actual call. I found out last November that my mother in law was regularly telling John's siblings things like our family has left the church and that he is starting his own church. I figured that out when John's sister sent us a very long letter to John. There had been a lot of mean, rude, threatening, or just bizarre emails, phone calls,
facebook messages and even public facebook comments coming from John's parents and sisters. That letter was, in my mind, "the last straw," especially as they had taken things I had written on my blog and used them to make their strange accusations. The idea that John had started his own church came from me commenting on my blog that we held church at home during the hurricane.
The roads and homes were flooded and church was closed for one week and only opened to gather for storm cleanup for two weeks, and the only roads we could use to get to the buildings in our stake were closed for three weeks. So yes we did church lessons at home and it was nice. By the time things were open again, it was conference and the idea of home centered, church supported church was announced.
Well, after that I took all of John's family off from Facebook and off my blog, except for one of John's brothers and sister in law. I took them off from my blog, but left them on facebook. I am considering taking them off my facebook now because I really do not know who we can trust and who believes these bizarre claims about John making his own church and making himself a prophet. I have no interest in re-establishing these relationships. I should add that we found out that back in 2015 or 2014, we found out that John's family had called our Bishop. Our Bishop at the time told us some of the things they had said and my mom and sister told me all sorts of crazy things they had been told about John from his parents and sisters. John's family denied things that we were told they had said. We gave them the benefit of the doubt, not knowing
who lied, and decided to let it go. I made the wrong decision then, which is very obvious now. At least this time, I can take it all philosophically. The first time around I struggled with sorrow and anger and cried a whole lot. This time, I am just like, well, that is their choice to say what they want and I don't have to talk to them.
I need to also say that in 2014 John's dad called me up and said that John was going to kill himself and take some of our kids with him. I hung up on him and got a mouthful from his daughters. He would not listen to my assurances that his claims were all wrong. Sometime in the next year he accused John of gathering followers. We thought that was one of the weirdest things we had heard. John laughed since his only social life then was us and his parents and siblings. But again, we just let those things go. I wish had said more and faced the situation more head on then.
Well last fall, I did say enough. I even called my mother and sisters and told them if they were going to become spies for my mother in law, I would cut them off too. And what do you know? My sister Monika got a text message from my mother in law asking her to keep an eye on us and let her know about us. My sister told her to work it out with us, and that she would not get in the middle and sent the text message to me. My mom agreed not to have contact with her anymore. She had already had my mother in law treat her very coldly and angrily because my mom voted for Donald Trump. I also forwarded two emails as samples that we had received to Ruth. One from my mother in law and one from my sister in law. I told Ruth what I had done, and to use those emails for knowledge and to make her own decision about how much communication she wanted to continue to have with that side of the family. In our family, we are fairly independent from one another and respect each other's choices. John still has his family on facebook and he still emails his brothers once in a while. I have no contact at all. Ruth and Kate, I think have little contact.
Here are the two emails I sent to Ruth. I deleted them along with everything we have gotten from John's family as it upsets me. But I have these two attached to an email thread I had with Ruth.
From John's sister:
Hi Diane, I can tell you are tired. I cannot comprehend how difficult your life is. I'm very grateful that you have always been fairly healthy. I cannot express how grateful I am that you are the mother of those beautiful children. I have learned much about being a good mom from you and have learned wisdom from your mothering.
I feel that I have long been a friend to you and your kids. Because of that, I can also say that I have long been a friend of John's. One of the hallmarks of true friendship is to say what needs to be said, even if it isn't nice. I know you've had a hard year. Do you remember how I called to put your mind at ease regarding the social worker coming to visit your home last summer? If I didn't have compassion for your family, would I have done that?
Anyway, BEFORE general conference and BEFORE you blocked me from your blog, you were talking about having "Home Church" and I cannot quote it, because I am blocked. But you did have church at home before last October. If you are John, reading this, it wouldn't surprise me, because I think once you/he told me that you all have shared emails, etc.
If you are John, what I told you in the letter is true.
If you are Diane, what I told John in the letter is true.
I am wretchedly sad that you are in such poverty. I actually feel partially responsible for that. If I had not told you about medicaid and foodstamps, you may not have ever become dependent on them. I'm surprised though, that none of you have jobs, because once a kid is an adult, in order to qualify for foodstamps, they have to prove at least 10 hours a week of job-searching at WorkForce. You, Diane, wouldn't have to, because of the young children in the home, but Kate would have to. I think you, John, would have to spend 40 hours a week at Workforce. Maybe Wyoming's rules are different. Anyway, becoming dependent on foodstamps is an easy trap to fall into, and if it had not been for an inspired Bishop, we'd probably be in similar straits as you. As it was though, we had a Bishop who helped us begin the path to self-reliance. It's weird, because you/John and I got our Patriarchal Blessings quite closely to each other and shared them with each other. I know your/John's Blessing talked about you/him providing for your/his siblings' families. We saw some of that when we first lived in Laramie, and you guys decided to give money to us, instead of paying Fast Offerings to your Bishop. I felt a bit odd about it being done like that, because I didn't think that's what the Patriarchal Blessing meant. Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly. My memory is pretty good though.
I can give you a copy of the letter I sent John, Diane, if you didn't get to read it. I scanned it before I sent it, so I have a pdf of it. It certainly was NOT full of accusations. There was about 10% of the letter that was a reprimand. It's a reprimand too, that lies on very solid foundations (sorry, but it is). If John told you it was full of accusations, you should know it wasn't. And if you are John, reading Diane's email, you should be able to tell the difference between a recount of history (which is what the majority of the letter was) and a reprimand.
I'm sorry to hear that I won't see adorable pictures of your children anymore on FB. That was the main thing I got lonely for, during my social media fast and I am terribly heartbroken that because I sent John a letter that I felt compelled by the Holy Spirit to send, I have made it so my sweet mom and other family members won't get to have contact with you guys either? That hardly seems fair. You should know though, that one of the things I accused John of doing (in the letter) was cutting himself off from family members. I guess you also feel this is the best way to help your family? I'm so sorry you feel it will help anything.
Well, I love you, you know, if you are Diane; you DO know it and cannot deny it, if you really think about it.
And I love you, you know, if you are John; you DO know it and cannot deny it, if you really think about it.
And if either of you consider that I don't love you, or try to mock that it's true that I love you, you might want to consider differently. I most certainly, without a doubt, know how to love.
Most sadly,
Mary
When we moved to this house, the ward assigned to our address is an hour drive away. We went there because we are generally obedient to these policy things. John offended the people there with a very stern, boisterous comment against priesthood holders use of pornography and about immodesty of women. I freely admit that during that time John had been surly in his comments given at church. I had asked him to stop and he said that no one listens to him if he says them in a kind, gentle voice. We have had more than a year and a half of consequences from that now, even though John has not made any comments in Church since like January 2018 and everything he said was not outside of what was taught in church 20 years ago like we should repent and believe what is written in the scriptures and pornography is an afront to God.
I am going to give more of an account of that with an email I sent to friend in a few minutes. After
church that second week we were there, that Bishop being offended pulled me aside and said that he looked up our address and we did not belong there. I told him we agreed but were not allowed to make those decisions. In January of 2018 when we ran out of money, we decided it was down to no church or drive to the closest ward. That ward took our records and Kate started her mission papers and we thought all was well. Now, I am going to put in the email I wrote to my friend to explain things further:
An email written by me this past spring:
sent the blog invite again. It has not worked for two of my daughters too. I am not sure why it is working for some people and not for others. My daughters say they are just getting an error message. Hopefully, it will work this time.
I am sorry to hear about Jeffy. My daughter Kate had a horrible first grade teacher, and did not read fluently until the 3rd grade. But by the 5th grade she was the top student in her class. At 15, she scored a 5 on her ap calculus exam. I really don't like how school is done these days. I think they push too much in the early years and not enough in the later years. It's completely backwards. Little kids need playtime to develop their minds and older kids need to learn to really buckle down study and try to understand the world and its philosophies and gain critical thinking skills. Instead, little kids are forced to sit and really study and work hard or fall behind and older kids are given a lot of work that requires no thought and is mostly hogwash propaganda.
I am so glad that the Lord is keeping your mother stable until you can get to her. I know it will be hard when the time comes, though. I will continue to pray for you afar.
Ruth is going to stay with Kate until Kate goes on her mission. I need to go ahead and tell you what has been going on with us and church here. I have kept it completely secret up until now. Recently, I have told my parents half the story because of the things my mother in law had been saying to everyone. I also told one other person that wondered about Ruth and Kate and had had some similar experiences to us. Because the story involves leadership in the Church, I have felt the need to be very cautious about what to say and how to say it. More than anything, I want to be right with God. There's this very curious statement from Joseph Smith, "for Michael, the Archangel, dared not bring a railing accusation against the devil, but said, “The Lord rebuke thee, Satan.” And I think that if Micheal the archangel should not accuse the devil with a railing accusation, then how much more cautious should we be no matter how offended we feel or even truthfully have been.
So here's the whole story, and honestly, if I had not lived it, I would have a hard time believing it:
When we moved to this house, we went to the ward of record even though it was farther away from us than 4 other wards in the area. The second week that we were there, and before they moved our records, John made an offensive comment in priesthood. The offensive comment was basically that men who hold the priesthood should clean up what they read watch, and look at, and that they should teach their daughters to dress modestly. I am sure he said it in a tone that felt accusatory to the men there. John definitely comes off as surly. Anyway, after church the Bishop of that ward pulled me aside and said that we did not belong in that ward and should not be there. I was shocked and stammered something about not being the one to decide the boundaries. The next week John was called into that Bishop's office and told that what he said was wrong and that only the Bishop was allowed to say such things in church. John objected to both of those statements and backed up his claim with scripture. We continued in that ward for a couple more months, and no one talked to us and our youth were treated like they were not even there, which was odd, but I knew it was because John offended the Bishop there. Even though John never made another comment in that ward, like the Bishop requested. We continued there until we ran out of savings and it came between going to a closer ward or not going to church at all. We went to another ward and they immediately took our records and started Kate's mission papers. We thought all was well. Until suddenly our records were mysteriously back in the ward of record. We asked for them to be sent back to the other ward. They were and then were mysteriously sent back. After a couple of weeks, the Bishop of the ward that had taken us in said that his stake president would not let us go there anymore until we got permission from SLC. Then John had an argument with that Bishop. That Bishop said he knew that John was apostate and only allowed our family into his ward to keep me and the kids from going inactive. John was shocked. This Bishop then told John that obeying your local leaders was more important to salvation than the Book of Mormon or any of the other scriptures. John of course argued that. We were really poor at that point and needed to ask for financial help from the church. The stake president in our stake of record said to go back to the ward of record and they would help us and do Kate's mission papers and get us our temple recommends, which needed renewing. We went back to the ward of record. We were told to write a letter to SLC asking for our records to be moved and give it to the stake president to send it in for us. Well, John and I got our temple recommends and we got financial help for 3 months. When I went in to ask for help for that 3rd month things went very badly and there were other things going on that made us feel unsafe there. That was the last time we went to that ward. We met with the stake president. He confessed to never sending in our letter to SLC, but said that he would move our records to the ward in the stake that is closest to us and do Kate's mission papers. I had already decided that there was no way in heck I was ever going to ask a Bishop for financial help again, so we refused all financial help. We went to that other ward that the stake president said he would move our records to, and John was very careful never to make a comment or really say anything to anyone. We thought they would move our records over. Well after a month the Bishop of that ward called me into his office. He said some things that were pretty odd, the least being that he looked forward to having an argument with John and saying that he needed to protect his ward from John. Mind you, this was July and John had not made a single comment in church since the first of November the previous year. Well, I was still under the delusion that our records would be moved and Kate would get her mission papers done. She had already gotten her wisdom teeth removed. I contacted the stake president again and asked him to move our records to the closer ward and get Kate's papers started. He was so nice when we met with him, so I was shocked when he said that Kate would need weekly worthiness interviews over months and then if the Bishop in the ward that we were then attending found her worthy, they would move only Kate's records and talk about whether or not she could go on a mission. Because of some of the odd things this Bishop said to me when he called me into his office, Kate said no way was she going to weekly worthiness interviews alone with this Bishop and we decided to move out of this area even though our house is very affordable and we love the yard and our proximity to the beach. Then the hurricane hit and then our only vehicle started to have serious problems. The engine light came on and the car thumped like a beating heart. We had no one to turn to. Parents on both sides were no longer helping us. My mom, not knowing our church situation told me I had to go to my ministering sister for help and not them. Well, we have had nothing of the sort since we moved into this house. We were pretty stuck and I was pregnant and there were problems with the baby and me and our roof was leaking from the hurricane. The van would run, although I am sure it would only run on prayer, so we prayed and felt like the Lord would keep the van running only for the bare necessities. Basically, we only drove it for my medical appointments and when I had those, I also went grocery shopping. We didn't go to church because we felt like the Lord did not consider that a necessity at that time. After another 2 months we had two miracles. The first was that one week I got into the van to drive to my pregnancy check up and the engine light was off and van was no longer thumping. I know that the Lord or an angel or something by the hand of the Lord had fixed our van. We still have not had it looked at and it still works as if it had been repaired competently. The second miracle was the baby was completely healed, and with diet all of my pregnancy problems were either healed or under control. With the van's miraculous repair, we decided to go back to church. But by this time, we were done. We have been attending the ward that actually has members within a couple of miles from our house rather than a half hour drive away. We have stayed incognito, so to speak. We have not given our names or anything. We've just said that we are visitors. My son Joseph, he's 9, even told his primary class that his name is classified information. And that is basically how we all feel. We don't want to be kicked out of another ward. We just want to keep our covenants by attending church and taking the sacrament. But because of the problems we have had with church, Adam turned 14 and was not advanced in the priesthood. Josh turned 8 and has not been baptized. Kate has not put in her mission papers. Ruth came home honorably from her mission and did not give a talk or get any recognition, and we have a 3 month old baby that has not been blessed. Also Ruth, Kate, and Johnny cannot go to a church school because they cannot get an ecclesiastical endorsement. And as far as I can tell, this is all because John gave an offensive comment in Nov 2017. When we move, we will send our oldest 3 kids to a singles ward, so hopefully the taint of their father will not follow them. Though Kate and Johnny are fully aware that they may need to attend church there a year before that Bishop declares them active and worthy to serve missions.The rest of us will try and get the missionaries to come in and "reactivate" our family so that Adam can get ordained, Josh baptized, and the baby blessed. The stake president knows everything. Kate cried in his presence back in December because she wants so much to go on a mission, and we met with him to release Ruth when Ruth came home. But nothing has changed, and given that, I am certain nothing will change. I am not confrontational, so I never pressed for anything. I never asked a third time for our records to just be moved. We have just shut our mouths and meekly taken what they've thrown at us. John has not said a thing in church and plans to remain silent. The one thing we will not do is go back to the ward of record. Given the miracles we have experienced, I don't think the Lord is unhappy with how we have handled this. In fact, like you said, we have learned so much more by our own personal scripture study, than we ever had in church.
That is the real answer to "is Ruth going back to BYUI and is Kate going on a mission and why has Josh not been baptized?"
John still does not have a job, but the Lord has temporarily provided us with some income and we have been able to make all our own bills, which quite frankly is miracle number 3. We are still waiting for that last miracle of John getting a job and us moving out of here.
I am now going to fill in a few things that I did not say in that email.
Last May, I went to the Bishop of the ward of record for financial help. That was the third month I requested help. I sat down. He had a man stand in front of an open door tattoos up and down his arm. His arms were folded across his chest and he was blocking the door. I was alone. John had stayed home from church with Joseph who had thrown up the night before. The Bishop leaned over the desk and got closer to me. He said that this was the last time he would help us. I gasped and he laughed out loud and in my opinion triumphantly. He said he would need some proof that John was applying for jobs and angrily asked why John was not there. He asked me about job applications. I told him about the 10 or so jobs that I had applied for. He again said he was not going to help us and added that he might if I took a job and then laughed out load again. I looked over to the man in front of the door and he moved to block it some more and nodded at me as if in favor of what the Bishop was saying and doing. Then he opened our bills and got after me for using too much water. Then he took our bills, and I left in tears. I went to relief society and even though I was clearly shooken up, they asked me to give the closing prayer. I went home to John and then I made a mistake and called my mother in law. I told her we would not be getting help from the church and said I did not think I could physically take a job now because of how I was feeling with the pregnancy. She assured they would help us financially and that I would not need to take a job. I told her since it cost so much to go to church, we would just drive to the closer ward. I thought I was being nice trying to keep our expenses at a minimum. I was very shaken from that interview with that Bishop. I did not feel safe. I was made fun of and belittled and I did declare that I would never go to a Bishop for welfare again.
We met with the stake president the next month. He thought we were going to ask for welfare and asked that Bishop to come. I told him we were not asking for welfare but that we were asking him to just move our records to the closer ward to help us financially. I also asked him to remove our address from the church records because our address was the main thing that seemed to be causing us problems in church. The stake president said he would move our records and do Kate's mission papers and even give us welfare. We said no to the welfare, as I was not going to ask for financial help from the church ever again and John was in agreement with that.
A few weeks later, the Bishop of the close ward in our stake (it is the second closest ward to our home) called me into his office. He seemed put off that I kept Sam with me and asked what he could do to get me alone. I was teary eyed and he moved to closer to me said that he could help me. I moved back and wiped my tears. I still felt traumatized from the last time I was in a Bishop's office. I explained to him that we did not go alone into closed and lock rooms with people anymore. I told him about the obgyn I had in Bountiful, Ut who was a stalwart and trusted member of the church and community-- a father of 7 and a high counselman-- who had been arrested and sent to jail for child pornography and for raping and a 13 and a 14 year old girl. I said that taught me to be more cautious. Then I was astonished. He sat back in his chair and said that I just need to understand that everyone has their little problems. I responded "and not so little problems." He gave a slight nod of agreement but then said it did not matter because the man was released. I said, well the man is in jail. He then told me that he heard about my husband and was looking forward to having an argument with him. I did ask that Bishop if he would do Kate's mission papers. I don't remember what he said, but I took it as a yes. I asked him for local doctors that were LDS as I would prefer that. He gave me a name. I told him I would email the stake president and ask him again to move our records. I was shooken up again and confused. That was a really weird interview. I never even found out why he called me into his office.
I did email the stake president and this is the response I got:
"Sister Robertson, i spoke with Bishop Dixon and here are the steps that we feel will work best.
1 bishop Dixon will interview Kate over the next few weeks/months, give her some assignments and determine if he feels that she is ready to serve.
2 if he feels that she is ready he will transfer just her records to new Bern and discuss the financial arrangements for her.
Hope you are doing well. We are praying and hoping that Brother Robertson is able to find a job.
Pres w"
Kate did not like the idea of having to spend months in closed door with a Bishop who said child pornography and teen rape was just one of those little problems that we all have, especially not knowing if they would even allow her to go. She decided that she would wait until we moved, and that is what she is doing. We stayed going to that ward until our van broke down and we did not have a way to fix it. When it was miraculously fixed, we went to the ward in the closer city, but in the other stake. We have not asked for our records to be moved again and we have not told people who we are. We will move and then submit to whatever is needed to get Adam advanced in the priesthood, Kate and Johnny on missions, and Joshua baptized. It is probably wiser to be assured that we have the cash to pay for our children's missions before asking again anyway.
The last Sunday in December the Stake President and his counselor showed up to our house. He had said he would remove our address from our records. John boldly asked him where was his integrity. Given that he did nothing we asked him, including the little thing of getting us Johnny's seminary graduation certificate, I was not surprised, but John was visibly upset. Kate cried to him about how things turned out with what he said about her mission papers. And he was unmoved and left. We brought Ruth in to him to be released from her mission. He asked what her mission president counselled her as she left. She told him that he had all the sister missionaries promise him that they would not marry someone who has had a pornography addiction anytime in the last 12 years. Our stake president was shocked. Ruth was surprised at his surprise because the advice seemed sensible to her.
When we got the report from social services John called his mom and asked if she had called social services on us. She denied, and left very weird phone messages thereafter. I am going to include the transcription of just one of them here.
Phone message from my mother in law. Some of the words are garbled as she was crying:
"I'm not surprised you didn't answer again, but you won't tell me the list of concerns. I will tell you my list of concerns my real list of concerns from the bottom of my heart. And you can see if it matches and if it matches in even though I didn't call that I guess I could be considered guilty. But John through no fault of your own. with all my heart for many years now, I believe that you are a paranoid schizophrenic. I know that you will not take this lightly and this would be upsetting to you but you are detached from reality and providing for your family and the necessity of having a job any job a truck driving job any job you could provide for your family. You are totally detached from the needs in reality of what you need. You have delusions of grandeur. You think that you are called by God that you are higher than the prophet and that towards are more important in the words of the current living prophet. that You can. Overwrite the direction of the church within your home and your spirits. And forth. You also it is obvious from reading your blog are seen individuals that you believe in West Indies. So who's the nation's Young? They are not. Hello do this please? You are also very paranoid and your family away. You're keeping your children. The older ones from experiencing their lives and going to College admission all your children from the experience of friends and associations and teachers. These are important things that we we need to grow. Yes. No. You you are living a paranoid schizophrenics can live a fairly normal life, which you are doing. For it's not normal."
The social worker asked who would send such an awful report with unfounded accusations to them. We told him likely it was John's family as they thought we should do whatever that Bishop an hour drive away from us said to do.
Now for the rest of the week. Friday, after the social worker left, I went to run the weekly errands. Just as I was getting to our house, I was on our street, a tire burst on our van. I slowly got the van pulled up to the house and we will figure out how to jack it up tomorrow.
Saturday morning, my laptop which is John's dying laptop finally died. It has served us well. We cannot be unhappy about it. Saturday, we were back on the roof working and back to our regular life. John has a lot of stuff for sale right now with some computer generated images and we are all doing well and taking life as it comes. I did not cry once this week, and I am pleased that I can handle things better now.